Jul 05, 2019
Mike Hedman
wrote
To start off, I do like where this product is going. I like the overall look and feel. I have seen some hiccups with "Waiting for program to respond" when I tried switching from main to stage, but those may just be my computer.
However, here are the issues I have so far. I'm sure some of them will be addressed in an upcoming update, at least I hope so. They are the blockers preventing me from upgrading today:
1. On the insert bible, I can't seem to find how to format it so that i can have multiple verses on a single page (like MS6).
2. Editing lyrics is painful. If I take a very long chorus, and put a page break in it (4 lines displayed max for our lyrics), it does not apply that page break to all "Chorus 1" cues in the song. Along with that, when adding a stanza, it inserts above the current selected item, not below. intuitively, things are usually inserted below unless an option is designated. Oh yeah, and I can only "copy/paste" a stanza. The whole cool MS6 "Insert stanza" functionality that was added recently is tossed out the window.
3. I can't find an "apply to cue" when I want to change fonts, etc.
4. I can't seem to find a generic template for formatting any new songs that I add. I did find the presets, and I think I can get most of the way there. On the plus side, all the preset options when saving a preset are AWESOME! I love picking and choosing what's saved.
5. What ever programming language/gui container this is written in doesn't take consideration "low resolution monitors" The ribbon is cut off (see screenshot). Trying to resize the window around does funky things to the app container, at least on my computer.
6. Sermon builder tool has issues. I selected a default bible and it wouldn't let me add the scripture until i added a different bible version, then went back to the first version.
7. It's painful to "re-create" the MS6 text cue: Now I have to add a blank slide and add a text object to it. If I add a second page, then i have to add a new text object to it. It doesn't pick up the objects or settings from the original page. Instead I have to manually apply the appropriate preset to that new page. I guess, I might be able to take all the pastors display text, put it in one massive cue, and force page breaks in it. But still apply to cue option for fonts, etc. that I could find.
On the plus side you have the clock available at release time!
You also have a dark theme by default!
Sorry, for the dump, but this product feels more like an MVP (minimum viable product) rather than a 90%-95% ready product (as stated on another thread).
I just hope the discounts extend long enough so that when I'm able to upgrade, I can still get them.
Over all, I do love the direction that you are going with the product. It just seems where it's at right now, should still be in beta, maybe as a free to use for MS6 users to get a feed back loop going.
Oh and for reference for the screenshot, my laptop (that I have no issues running MS6 on) is a lenovo that runs it's native resolution at 1366x768 (yeah lenovo sucks).
However, here are the issues I have so far. I'm sure some of them will be addressed in an upcoming update, at least I hope so. They are the blockers preventing me from upgrading today:
1. On the insert bible, I can't seem to find how to format it so that i can have multiple verses on a single page (like MS6).
2. Editing lyrics is painful. If I take a very long chorus, and put a page break in it (4 lines displayed max for our lyrics), it does not apply that page break to all "Chorus 1" cues in the song. Along with that, when adding a stanza, it inserts above the current selected item, not below. intuitively, things are usually inserted below unless an option is designated. Oh yeah, and I can only "copy/paste" a stanza. The whole cool MS6 "Insert stanza" functionality that was added recently is tossed out the window.
3. I can't find an "apply to cue" when I want to change fonts, etc.
4. I can't seem to find a generic template for formatting any new songs that I add. I did find the presets, and I think I can get most of the way there. On the plus side, all the preset options when saving a preset are AWESOME! I love picking and choosing what's saved.
5. What ever programming language/gui container this is written in doesn't take consideration "low resolution monitors" The ribbon is cut off (see screenshot). Trying to resize the window around does funky things to the app container, at least on my computer.
6. Sermon builder tool has issues. I selected a default bible and it wouldn't let me add the scripture until i added a different bible version, then went back to the first version.
7. It's painful to "re-create" the MS6 text cue: Now I have to add a blank slide and add a text object to it. If I add a second page, then i have to add a new text object to it. It doesn't pick up the objects or settings from the original page. Instead I have to manually apply the appropriate preset to that new page. I guess, I might be able to take all the pastors display text, put it in one massive cue, and force page breaks in it. But still apply to cue option for fonts, etc. that I could find.
On the plus side you have the clock available at release time!
You also have a dark theme by default!
Sorry, for the dump, but this product feels more like an MVP (minimum viable product) rather than a 90%-95% ready product (as stated on another thread).
I just hope the discounts extend long enough so that when I'm able to upgrade, I can still get them.
Over all, I do love the direction that you are going with the product. It just seems where it's at right now, should still be in beta, maybe as a free to use for MS6 users to get a feed back loop going.
Oh and for reference for the screenshot, my laptop (that I have no issues running MS6 on) is a lenovo that runs it's native resolution at 1366x768 (yeah lenovo sucks).
Reply
7 Answers
Jul 08, 2019
Brandon Hadley
agent
wrote
Hello Mike,
We want to work through each of his issues one-by-one and that we have great news on most of the things listed. I will have our Dir. of Prod. Dev. respond directly to you via email.
God bless,
Brandon
We want to work through each of his issues one-by-one and that we have great news on most of the things listed. I will have our Dir. of Prod. Dev. respond directly to you via email.
God bless,
Brandon
Jul 08, 2019
Jeff Benson
wrote
Hi Brandon,
I'm actually working through a few of the concerns Mike raised myself after upgrading last week. I'm still getting my feet wet, but I'd like to also see what Aaron has to say (I spoke with him a couple of times at Lifeway's conference last month), if possible.
The way MS6 has been for us lately, I've been really excited for a more stable situation.
Thanks,
Jeff
I'm actually working through a few of the concerns Mike raised myself after upgrading last week. I'm still getting my feet wet, but I'd like to also see what Aaron has to say (I spoke with him a couple of times at Lifeway's conference last month), if possible.
The way MS6 has been for us lately, I've been really excited for a more stable situation.
Thanks,
Jeff
Jul 09, 2019
John Phillips
agent
wrote
Hey Jeff,
I figured it would be helpful to share some of the things I shared with Mike on his questions, so here goes:
Thank you for taking the time to write your feedback. I really appreciate the encouragement as well. I did want to address each of your points, though, so you know where things are as well as where they are headed. I also want to make sure you are aware with how we are doing MS7 development differently than in the past. Although not all features that are in V6 are currently in V7, we do plan to have them (in some form or fashion) in V7. We have focused on stability with V7 and we aren't implementing any features that we can't be confident that it won't negatively impact stability. That's why we are working so hard on this. For some users like yourself, this is an MVP, especially if you are looking for certain features that aren't there. For many users, MS7 is exactly what they need (and for some it is more than they need). But, if we held it until all features that all users wanted in the program was there and perfect, well... we would never release it. So, we have to make the tough decision of when to release for those users who can make use of it as well as get feedback (and very specific feedback) from users as they use it. We have actually been beta testing since January with a group of users like yourself.
1. On the insert bible, I can't seem to find how to format it so that i can have multiple verses on a single page (like MS6).
- This is coming as it is planned. I don't have a time-frame, but it is on the list of things we are working on.
2. Editing lyrics is painful. If I take a very long chorus, and put a page break in it (4 lines displayed max for our lyrics), it does not apply that page break to all "Chorus 1" cues in the song. Along with that, when adding a stanza, it inserts above the current selected item, not below. intuitively, things are usually inserted below unless an option is designated. Oh yeah, and I can only "copy/paste" a stanza. The whole cool MS6 "Insert stanza" functionality that was added recently is tossed out the window.
- First off, the Copy/Paste/Insert below is coming very soon. We are adding a whole new list of stanzas (including the "blank" stanza) to an upcoming build to release soon. Once we get that out, then we can start working on the linking of stanzas to each other (this will be a very difficult challenge for development, but we will work hard on it) as well as the inserting of stanzas within the Edit Area. We have some plans for this that actually will make it easier and more intuitive than in V6.
3. I can't find an "apply to cue" when I want to change fonts, etc.
- When you are working with a linked text box (like a lyric text or scripture), simply format as you want and then right-click->Apply Formatting and that will do what you are looking for. If you are using non-linked text boxes or images or such, you can save a Preset and then apply those from the preset to accomplish the same thing.
4. I can't seem to find a generic template for formatting any new songs that I add. I did find the presets, and I think I can get most of the way there. On the plus side, all the preset options when saving a preset are AWESOME! I love picking and choosing what's saved.
- Templates are coming. They will actually be a combination of Presets that save together. And then we will take it one step further and allow you to create Themes (which are a collection of Templates), much like the Sermon Builder does right now when selecting a theme. So a Theme will consist of Templates and a Template will consist of Presets (for a simple explanation).
5. What ever programming language/gui container this is written in doesn't take consideration "low resolution monitors" The ribbon is cut off (see screenshot). Trying to resize the window around does funky things to the app container, at least on my computer.
- It is a known issue that we have been working on. The .NET UI tools we used didn't play nicely at lower resolutions, so we had to create a bounds until we get modify it manually. We also locked some of the window resizing for the moment but will add that back in as we add in the controls to modify the Control Screen.
6. Sermon builder tool has issues. I selected a default bible and it wouldn't let me add the scripture until i added a different bible version, then went back to the first version.
- I tried on a couple of different machines and couldn't repeat what you were describing. I may be doing something user-wise that I'm taking for granted that you aren't doing or isn't clear to you. Can you give me exact steps of what you are doing (including mouse clicks, keyboard types, etc.) so that I can make sure we are taking your way of doing it into consideration?
7. It's painful to "re-create" the MS6 text cue: Now I have to add a blank slide and add a text object to it. If I add a second page, then i have to add a new text object to it. It doesn't pick up the objects or settings from the original page. Instead I have to manually apply the appropriate preset to that new page. I guess, I might be able to take all the pastors display text, put it in one massive cue, and force page breaks in it. But still apply to cue option for fonts, etc. that I could find.
- We actually will be adding a Text Cue element soon (along with Liturgies). But, we didn't like the way we've done the Text Cue in the past to create it. We are working with some users on flow to make it make sense from a usability stand-point (not a programming stand-point). If you want to let me know how you would like to see this work, I'd love to take your idea into consideration as we are building this out. We want to make it as easy as we can for users (not for our developers). :-)
Let me know if you have any other questions or ideas. I'd love to hear them. Thanks and be blessed!
Aaron West
Director of Product Development
I figured it would be helpful to share some of the things I shared with Mike on his questions, so here goes:
Thank you for taking the time to write your feedback. I really appreciate the encouragement as well. I did want to address each of your points, though, so you know where things are as well as where they are headed. I also want to make sure you are aware with how we are doing MS7 development differently than in the past. Although not all features that are in V6 are currently in V7, we do plan to have them (in some form or fashion) in V7. We have focused on stability with V7 and we aren't implementing any features that we can't be confident that it won't negatively impact stability. That's why we are working so hard on this. For some users like yourself, this is an MVP, especially if you are looking for certain features that aren't there. For many users, MS7 is exactly what they need (and for some it is more than they need). But, if we held it until all features that all users wanted in the program was there and perfect, well... we would never release it. So, we have to make the tough decision of when to release for those users who can make use of it as well as get feedback (and very specific feedback) from users as they use it. We have actually been beta testing since January with a group of users like yourself.
1. On the insert bible, I can't seem to find how to format it so that i can have multiple verses on a single page (like MS6).
- This is coming as it is planned. I don't have a time-frame, but it is on the list of things we are working on.
2. Editing lyrics is painful. If I take a very long chorus, and put a page break in it (4 lines displayed max for our lyrics), it does not apply that page break to all "Chorus 1" cues in the song. Along with that, when adding a stanza, it inserts above the current selected item, not below. intuitively, things are usually inserted below unless an option is designated. Oh yeah, and I can only "copy/paste" a stanza. The whole cool MS6 "Insert stanza" functionality that was added recently is tossed out the window.
- First off, the Copy/Paste/Insert below is coming very soon. We are adding a whole new list of stanzas (including the "blank" stanza) to an upcoming build to release soon. Once we get that out, then we can start working on the linking of stanzas to each other (this will be a very difficult challenge for development, but we will work hard on it) as well as the inserting of stanzas within the Edit Area. We have some plans for this that actually will make it easier and more intuitive than in V6.
3. I can't find an "apply to cue" when I want to change fonts, etc.
- When you are working with a linked text box (like a lyric text or scripture), simply format as you want and then right-click->Apply Formatting and that will do what you are looking for. If you are using non-linked text boxes or images or such, you can save a Preset and then apply those from the preset to accomplish the same thing.
4. I can't seem to find a generic template for formatting any new songs that I add. I did find the presets, and I think I can get most of the way there. On the plus side, all the preset options when saving a preset are AWESOME! I love picking and choosing what's saved.
- Templates are coming. They will actually be a combination of Presets that save together. And then we will take it one step further and allow you to create Themes (which are a collection of Templates), much like the Sermon Builder does right now when selecting a theme. So a Theme will consist of Templates and a Template will consist of Presets (for a simple explanation).
5. What ever programming language/gui container this is written in doesn't take consideration "low resolution monitors" The ribbon is cut off (see screenshot). Trying to resize the window around does funky things to the app container, at least on my computer.
- It is a known issue that we have been working on. The .NET UI tools we used didn't play nicely at lower resolutions, so we had to create a bounds until we get modify it manually. We also locked some of the window resizing for the moment but will add that back in as we add in the controls to modify the Control Screen.
6. Sermon builder tool has issues. I selected a default bible and it wouldn't let me add the scripture until i added a different bible version, then went back to the first version.
- I tried on a couple of different machines and couldn't repeat what you were describing. I may be doing something user-wise that I'm taking for granted that you aren't doing or isn't clear to you. Can you give me exact steps of what you are doing (including mouse clicks, keyboard types, etc.) so that I can make sure we are taking your way of doing it into consideration?
7. It's painful to "re-create" the MS6 text cue: Now I have to add a blank slide and add a text object to it. If I add a second page, then i have to add a new text object to it. It doesn't pick up the objects or settings from the original page. Instead I have to manually apply the appropriate preset to that new page. I guess, I might be able to take all the pastors display text, put it in one massive cue, and force page breaks in it. But still apply to cue option for fonts, etc. that I could find.
- We actually will be adding a Text Cue element soon (along with Liturgies). But, we didn't like the way we've done the Text Cue in the past to create it. We are working with some users on flow to make it make sense from a usability stand-point (not a programming stand-point). If you want to let me know how you would like to see this work, I'd love to take your idea into consideration as we are building this out. We want to make it as easy as we can for users (not for our developers). :-)
Let me know if you have any other questions or ideas. I'd love to hear them. Thanks and be blessed!
Aaron West
Director of Product Development
Jul 09, 2019
Jeff Benson
wrote
Hey Aaron,
Thanks for sharing your reply! I had some specific issues myself which I sent to support and Ryan was helpful in sharing some how-to's. So I'm on my way to try them out and I underatand totally rolling out features based on stability. I appreciate that as being someone in software support, myself.
I never did use the Text cue myself because of the cumbersome and rigid nature it was presented previously. How the text cues are created could vary on the content but if they could be designed similarly to tge way Lyric cues are built, that would provide a familiar user experience. Give the ability to add various text boxes with an array of labels, like the add stanza labels. Again, content and reason for the cue really does make a global approach difficult.
I'm excited to see where the next updates take this! Thanks foe the direct correspondence, its very much appreciated.
Jeff
Thanks for sharing your reply! I had some specific issues myself which I sent to support and Ryan was helpful in sharing some how-to's. So I'm on my way to try them out and I underatand totally rolling out features based on stability. I appreciate that as being someone in software support, myself.
I never did use the Text cue myself because of the cumbersome and rigid nature it was presented previously. How the text cues are created could vary on the content but if they could be designed similarly to tge way Lyric cues are built, that would provide a familiar user experience. Give the ability to add various text boxes with an array of labels, like the add stanza labels. Again, content and reason for the cue really does make a global approach difficult.
I'm excited to see where the next updates take this! Thanks foe the direct correspondence, its very much appreciated.
Jeff
Jul 10, 2019
John Phillips
agent
wrote
Jeff,
My pleasure! One of my core beliefs is that I want to hear from users personally. I'm not in some box somewhere in my own world. Instead, I'm a regular user just like you guys. There are things that I'm excited about (that I know we are working on that I can't talk about yet), that I know will get a lot of users excited. But, more importantly, the feedback from those users who are using it is valuable to me. Thank you for sharing and we hope to continue to provide a great product that only gets better. Thanks and be blessed!
Aaron West
Director of Product Development
My pleasure! One of my core beliefs is that I want to hear from users personally. I'm not in some box somewhere in my own world. Instead, I'm a regular user just like you guys. There are things that I'm excited about (that I know we are working on that I can't talk about yet), that I know will get a lot of users excited. But, more importantly, the feedback from those users who are using it is valuable to me. Thank you for sharing and we hope to continue to provide a great product that only gets better. Thanks and be blessed!
Aaron West
Director of Product Development
Jul 13, 2019
Jeff Webber
wrote
Why was 7 released if there is "so much still in development?" I really liked V6 that we just upgraded to and hadn't even used it for 3-4 months now when 7 came out ... I feel like we lost most of the controls and cannot modify things like the display background or text colors that are so low contrast I even have difficulty seeing them very well at all. I kind of feel like I went from power user to idiot in one download ... my tech team is in a revolt and has no confidence as V7 is not intuitive and even after watching the training videos, still not sure how to really use the program to the level that we were. One of the most simple tasks was to show a slide. We used to double click back-n-forth between slides and they showed on the stage screen instantly ... not sure this is the case at all anymore. Seems like all we can do is click the tiny round blue dot with the "play" triangle in it to show a slide ... this is NOT very useful and takes much longer to show a slide or jump around in a song when the repeat a verse, etc. We are so very disappointed moving back to V6 but I am now not finding much support for V6 on the Mediashout webpage ...
Jul 16, 2019
MediaShout Support
agent
wrote
Hey Jeff! I'm sorry about the trouble you're having. I can definitely understand how you feel. But don't worry- there's no pressure to move to V7 right away since V6 will still work for you and is still under our support. The YouTube Videos (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXQ0Ok4FZvgcApmNn0Q9eJE3_5xr7jc42) and Training Guide (http://mediashout.com/guide/) are still available as is our Knowledge Base (https://support.mediashout.com/875037-MediaShout-6-Windows). All of these are great tools for V6. Of course, we also respond to tickets and chats regarding V6 as well.
Some things are still in the works like being able to select a theme that's lighter colors, etc. I definitely apologize that the darker theme is harder to see in your case. The majority of users working in a dark environment leaned that way, so it was the primary design, but we want to add some options. While there are many things still in development, there are not that many big things that aren't there in V7. While we continue to invest in development for the program, it made sense to go ahead and release it because there are tons of folks out there that are benefiting from it already just the way it is, and those early adopters help us to make the software better and with funds for accelerating further development of the features still on our wishlist. This "agile development" also allows us to release updates and features to the software in the form of plugins, etc. where you won't have to update the whole program every time we add something you want, when we get to that point. I would also point out that V6 was much the same when it very first came out. If you started using V6 around 3 years in, it felt much different than when it was first released. With V7, we do know that the core of the product is more solid than any of our versions in the past, and closer than we've ever been to something we're happy with right out of the gate-- but with that said, we are excited about new things coming out.
With all that said, I think you may be missing some key pieces that are making it seem harder than it is. For instance, if you're just looking at the edit screen, that little blue fire button is all you can see to put things up to the screen. But you may not be aware you can flip to the Presenter View which provides actually a much easier interface for hopping around to different stanzas and slides than V6 did... Press Ctrl + Alt + V or go in the View menu and choose the Presenter View on a presentation and you'll see what I mean. Those are things that should be pretty big in the training videos. So if you purchased or received the free training video, be sure to watch that, and you can also see bite sized feature highlights at www.mediashout.com/features.
As with anything, it takes a little getting used to, but ultimately we've found that usesr have been more happy with the platform and controls on V7 already than ever before. We've had less "how do I" questions than with releases in the past for example. But with that comes a lot of change, so we do realize it's an adjustment coming from V6. V7 is in a whole other category than any MediaShout version in the past because it was completely rebuilt on a new platform that allows us to break out of the box of limits we used to have on our old framework, and ultimately that ensures that users will have the performance they need going into the future. Also, there were a lot of things that you had to know specific MediaShout "tricks" to get right, whereas in V7, it functions more like you'd expect a program to function in certain areas, so new users can pick it up easier.
I really do hope this helps and that your experience will improve. Please let us know what we can do to help on either V6 or V7, on our support page via tickets or chat, or if you have the Plus Membership, over the phone as well.
Thanks so much!
Some things are still in the works like being able to select a theme that's lighter colors, etc. I definitely apologize that the darker theme is harder to see in your case. The majority of users working in a dark environment leaned that way, so it was the primary design, but we want to add some options. While there are many things still in development, there are not that many big things that aren't there in V7. While we continue to invest in development for the program, it made sense to go ahead and release it because there are tons of folks out there that are benefiting from it already just the way it is, and those early adopters help us to make the software better and with funds for accelerating further development of the features still on our wishlist. This "agile development" also allows us to release updates and features to the software in the form of plugins, etc. where you won't have to update the whole program every time we add something you want, when we get to that point. I would also point out that V6 was much the same when it very first came out. If you started using V6 around 3 years in, it felt much different than when it was first released. With V7, we do know that the core of the product is more solid than any of our versions in the past, and closer than we've ever been to something we're happy with right out of the gate-- but with that said, we are excited about new things coming out.
With all that said, I think you may be missing some key pieces that are making it seem harder than it is. For instance, if you're just looking at the edit screen, that little blue fire button is all you can see to put things up to the screen. But you may not be aware you can flip to the Presenter View which provides actually a much easier interface for hopping around to different stanzas and slides than V6 did... Press Ctrl + Alt + V or go in the View menu and choose the Presenter View on a presentation and you'll see what I mean. Those are things that should be pretty big in the training videos. So if you purchased or received the free training video, be sure to watch that, and you can also see bite sized feature highlights at www.mediashout.com/features.
As with anything, it takes a little getting used to, but ultimately we've found that usesr have been more happy with the platform and controls on V7 already than ever before. We've had less "how do I" questions than with releases in the past for example. But with that comes a lot of change, so we do realize it's an adjustment coming from V6. V7 is in a whole other category than any MediaShout version in the past because it was completely rebuilt on a new platform that allows us to break out of the box of limits we used to have on our old framework, and ultimately that ensures that users will have the performance they need going into the future. Also, there were a lot of things that you had to know specific MediaShout "tricks" to get right, whereas in V7, it functions more like you'd expect a program to function in certain areas, so new users can pick it up easier.
I really do hope this helps and that your experience will improve. Please let us know what we can do to help on either V6 or V7, on our support page via tickets or chat, or if you have the Plus Membership, over the phone as well.
Thanks so much!