Mediashout 7 missing a significant number of important features from previous versions (Ex. Mediashout 6)

Aug 30 (2 months ago)
JoshSutcliff wrote
My question is if you're building MediaShout 7 from the ground up, not using any of the code/framework from your previous MS builds, then why is MediaShout 7 listed for purchase as a finished product?<br /> <br /> At best, MediaShout 7 should be in a late alpha/early beta-testing phase, not available for purchase by the general consumer, and where owners of MS4/5/6 can opt-in to test it out and report back here on the forums. Right now, you have a system where MediaShout 7 is advertised as your latest completed product, and owners of previous MS versions can &quot;upgrade&quot; to MS7 for an additional $299. <br /> <br /> The problem with charging to upgrade to MS7 for previous users is that their other license keys are INVALIDATED, because you're &quot;trading in&quot; your license key of MS6 for a MS7 license key. (see forum link/comment here: <a href="https://support.mediashout.com/820223-MS-6-wont-launch-even-with-lic-code">https://support.mediashout.com/820223-MS-6-wont-launch-even-with-lic-code</a> and screenshot #1). My issue with &quot;trading in&quot; your license key of MS6 - a finished product - for MS7, is that you state yourselves that MS7 isn't finished (see forum link/comments here: <a href="https://support.mediashout.com/522795-Many-Many-Questions-from-a-MS6-User-am-I-missing-something">https://support.mediashout.com/522795-Many-Many-Questions-from-a-MS6-User-am-I-missing-something</a> and screenshot #2). Many features that are clearly present in MS6 aren't anywhere to be found in MS7, and if those missing features are needed to make a Sunday morning service work, you're at the mercy of waiting until MediaShout devs release those feature updates.<br /> <br /> By having users &quot;trade in&quot; their old license key, and paying an additional $299, just to have a license key for MS7, you're implying that this new version 7 is: <br /> 1) *At least* $299 better than the previous build<br /> 2) Currently works and has features we expect to have in the upgraded version.<br /> <br /> I'm not angry, because MS6 has worked for how we needed it. I am upset that these issues listed above weren't clearly stated alongside the listing for users looking to upgrade to MS7. An example could've been &quot;NOTICE FOR USERS UPGRADING FROM MEDIASHOUT 6: MediaShout 7 is still in development and does not contain 100% of the features you're currently used to utilizing in your currently licensed version.&quot;<br /> <br />
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21 Answers
Sep 03 (2 months ago)
David May agent wrote
I would be happy to help you. The program when it released and especially now after a few additions is ready in the eyes of a lot of people-- in the sense that it does everything they need to do, and even fixes problems they've had and offers things they've been waiting on and are anxious to use that V6 didn't have, or were improvements over V6. For those people, the new version IS certainly $249 better. ($249 is the standard upgrade price, not $299). At this point, all the features that MOST users need are certainly there.<br /> <br /> For others who need very specific features in V6 that are not in V7, it does make sense to wait to upgrade. For those who may have jumped the gun and upgraded and not realized that something didn't work the way they thought, etc, we are very flexible. We appreciate our users and would never want anyone to feel punished for investing in what we are excited to make available as an upgrade. As a standard policy, when you pay to move up at upgrade price (which is about half of full price for a license), it does trade in the old license for the new one, yes. But if a user contacts us and we need to allow them to install the old version again, we will likely override the system and allow that. We have always been the kind of company that stands with customers and serves their unique needs. We're not a large corporation who sticks to strict policies that hurts our users.<br /> <br /> We are working very hard to make MediaShout 7 the best presentation software available from anyone from the most basic to the most advanced user. Some things are still in the works, but it's definitely not a beta program. We do have a page with &quot;coming soon&quot; features that are still being worked on, but these are just features that are to be added in updates, etc. Honestly, we have always constantly added new features and consider that an advantage, not a disadvantage, when it comes to making something available that's already good, but continuing to improve it and add things based on user request and user feedback. The best thing for the program in terms of it growing to suit many users needs is actually the request of actual users, and that has accelerated and expanded what we've been able to do so far!<br /> <br /> I am definitely sorry for any inconvenience or frustration you've experienced, and would love to have you contact me directly if you want to dialogue about specific things I can go to the developers with as far as feedback, etc. My contact is david (at) mediashout.com.<br /> <br /> Thanks!
Sep 19 (58 days ago)
Richard Green A wrote
I have to concur with Josh Sutcliff, It is not ready for prime time.<br /> And finding answer on how to do things almost impossible.<br /> EXAMPLE.<br /> 1. How do I pack a presentation?<br /> 2. How do I loop a cue?<br /> 3. How do I set video to advance &quot;end-of-media&quot; or &quot;end-of-sound&quot;.<br /> 4. How do I get MS7 to start at the last opened script?<br /> <br /> I worked in computer support for 27 years, I'm no novice to software and hardware.<br /> Come on guys, give us a manual that is complete and easy to use.<br /> -dick green<br />
Sep 20 (57 days ago)
Duncan, DeWayne wrote
I also have to agree with Josh and Richard. Also, in v6 I was able to insert a web link under &quot;Insert Elements&quot; as a cue for display to the congregation. If v7 does that I sure can't find it. I have been using MS since 2.0 or 2.5 (can't remember which) and it seems to me ever since v5 the initial releases were really not ready for prime time (regardless of &quot;in the eyes of a lot of people&quot;). I also have been using computer systems since the DOS days and for the amount of money shelled out up front I believe any software should be ready to go right out of the box. It almost seems as if I am paying to be a beta tester. Don't get me wrong, I love MediaShout, but there have been times, and several at that, that I have been ready to switch to Pro Presenter. I just feel like at this time I have so much invested in money, time, and effort that I'm kinda emotionally stuck with MS. I'm glad I held off recommending v7 to my buddy who runs v6 at his church. I told him I would let him know when v7 is really ready.
Sep 20 (57 days ago)
David May agent wrote
Hey Richard,<br /> <br /> At this point, I'm just going to answer the questions you have as simply as I can. I've already explained in my longer posts above the reasoning behind when V7 was released. I certainly don't disagree with some of your thoughts, but there is much more to it than what you'd imagine. We are frustrated ourselves that some things are taking longer than anticipated, but at the same time we are excited about what is already there in this version and where it's going. For your questions--<br /> <br /> 1) Regarding Packing: You don't need to pack presentations because all media is embedded into the script, and there is an algorithm to compress it to where the script files (while still larger than they used to be) aren't out of control size-wise. So now it's as simple as taking your presentation from one computer to another-- no more packing and repacking and taking the folder of files, etc.<br /> <br /> 2) You loop a cue by having it selected in front of you on the screen, and clicking the Script Scenarios Plugin at the top right on the side bar on the right. Tell it what cue to loop back to (can be itself), and how long you want each page to advance and that's it. Easier than script controls used to be actually.<br /> <br /> 3) Right NOW there's not a end of media control. If you want a video cue to advance, you could use the script scenario plugin to tell the cue to advance at the same amount of seconds that is the length of the video. I know that's not ideal, and we are working to add that.<br /> <br /> 4) MediaShout 7 starts to the launch screen with previously opened scripts, but there's not a setting to bypass that and instead open a particular script like the last opened. That would be a great feature to have and I will put it in as a feature request.<br /> <br /> The user guide is available at http://mediashout.com/v7guide. I would like to see a PDF version as well, but we can easily make revisions in this interactive version, and a PDF will be made available once things are totally settled with all functions and additions over the next few months.
Sep 20 (57 days ago)
David May agent wrote
Hey DeWayne,<br /> <br /> The inserting a &quot;web cue&quot; was left out of V7 because honestly very few users used it, and it did not work very well anymore in previous MediaShout versions. The concept of it originates to days where websites were just way different than they are now. It relied on a basic web browser that didn't even support many modern interactive websites. We'd suggest simply taking a screen shot of the website you wish to show, and putting that into your presentation as media. We may introduce some kind of revamped feature to show websites in the future as a plugin, which the new platform will allow us to do. We just didn't want to carry over features that were crippled due to age and stick them into the new software. Aside from that, it's truly a new platform and EVERYTHING had to be completely redone that we wanted to put in it.<br /> <br /> I hear you about the software being fully ready. It does frustrate us beyond belief when something is not there that you need, or even worse if something doesn't work like it should. But at this point there's only one or two things that are really show stoppers for some people, and again, those are even limited to a select group. Also, this new platform is a little different in the &quot;agile development&quot; that is under the hood, where we will be at a place where we can have a basic platform and then add new plugins for different features, etc. This was the best way for us to get something out but still be working to add more.<br /> <br /> A three year development timeline before any sale of the product was simply not an option for us financially I'm afraid, and the pace we've been able to take with development AND improvement based on user feedback now that some users are on the platform has been exponential. It's definitely not a &quot;beta&quot; but it IS early adopters getting a REALLY good opportunity to speak into the development and tweak things to their specific needs. That's something that you won't see with larger companies like ProPresenter, who design a good platform but are more closed off to what individual churches may need. With our smaller team and attentive development staff, our head of development personally interacts with customers and takes each and every suggestion into consideration for what we're doing. For those who want to wait and buy a more &quot;mature&quot; product, that's fine-- but for those who want in on the ground floor of a great software, we've trimmed the fat and we have a great product to offer them that already conquers many frustrations of the former MediaShout versions and even other software platforms out there.<br /> <br /> We appreciate your support over the years and with this new version, and I am confident it will make ALL users happy over the next little bit, as well as improve even more for those it's already working great for.
Sep 28 (49 days ago)
Calum Jardine wrote
I just want to reiterate the sentiments here...<br /> <br /> We're currently stuck in a rut where PC updates we're being pushed include an update to .NET framework to 4.8 which breaks MS6 (as it's looking for 4.5 and there appears to be compatibility issues, which is almost enforcing a move to 7 - any chance of a MS6 patch to fix?), but MS7 appears to still be far from ready as a replacement.<br /> <br /> Lack of items like reference tokens should have been a mandatory feature for going public. Your own training videos (the one we have paid for) state the stage display could be used to show lyrics of the next page, which I've taken at face value since MS6 could do it... Only it can't because that feature isn't available, putting a hand typed text box on every slide is not an acceptable workaround.<br /> <br /> PS I am a fan of the cue library idea, however having the Insert Lyrics NOT be where you go to *insert lyrics* (once you have a few songs formatted) is so unintuitive. Hopefully once templates are released this will be less of an issue, but again they should really have been in from day one.<br /> <br /> Sorry, I'm not usually one to whinge - I love MS and have been using since 4 - but I'm currently feeling like we've been mis-sold. Please don't fall into the wider IT industry trap of throwing out software as &quot;early-access&quot;, especially if we aren't aware it's like that before we install it.
Oct 01 (46 days ago)
David May agent wrote
Hey Calum,<br /> <br /> I apologize for the situation you're in. We are working with you via our support (I have a ticket open with you myself) on the issue with .NET framework. I haven't seen it on any other user, so I'm confident we can get your Version 6 running.<br /> <br /> We try to keep a pulse on what's going on in the software world, but at the same time, we're an extremely small ministry based company and we don't have community with large software companies to know every time they plan to have an update etc. So honestly if there are things like updates to .NET that affect some users, we try to be proactive but most of the time we are reactive. There's definitely not any kind of conspiracy to force users to update. Our sales and tech support team encourages users to try Version 7 and make sure they are ready before moving up, and we publish all the features that are still coming soon, etc. For a large majority of users, it has everything they need and provides a wonderful experience, but there are a few things we're waiting for in the case of other users and that's fine. Version 6 continues to serve users well in those cases.<br /> <br /> I totally understand where you're coming from on things like reference tokens. Honestly, you'd be surprised how few people use even the stage display itself, much less those items. But I personally would always use that feature, and I know many need it. We thought we'd have it within a few weeks of intitial release, however, some things altared the development schedule and we are still waiting for it. With that said, we have been focusing on making the program rock solid and avoiding initial pains in show stopping areas that have happened so many times with launches in the past.<br /> <br /> I hear you on the Cues Library. It's a way different concept from past MediaShout versions, but is more in line with other presentation software options and provides more flexibility. I think maybe if there was a way to reconcile the cues library version of a lyric back to the main lyric library, that could help. But the idea is that the lyric library is just a library of text of the songs, with no formatting. The Cues Library is the place where the formatted and ready songs go. And yes, templates will help when we have the full templates feature to auto apply a default when inserting from the lyric library with no existing formatting.<br /> <br /> We do encourage users to check out the trial before purchasing to get fully aquainted with the changes, and if there's any doubt, we're happy to advise if something is still pending or when we think it's coming, or if it's just something there's a different way of doing in the new version.
Oct 01 (46 days ago)
Calum Jardine wrote
Hi David,<br /> <br /> No problem - apologies if my post comes across as a bit ranty; Saturday afternoon software frustrations when our volunteers find a major issue! I'm sure the .NET thing is likely to be a wider windows issue, you can have several versions installed if you install in order but they won't let you put them in retrospectively (!) and yes I'll pay more attention to the trial in future. Hopefully the changes come through soon and we can move over.<br /> <br /> Regards<br /> <br /> Calum
Oct 01 (46 days ago)
David May agent wrote
I'm with you and totally understand. There are many awaited features being added in our very next update for V7, and we're pressing hard to get that out to you guys ASAP. I am digging into the .NET thing too and will keep you posted on our ticket.
Oct 04 (43 days ago)
Jeremy wrote
count me in the &quot;minority&quot; of users that the release of v7 does not meet the needs. Having so many things missing from the program at release when it was pitched as so much better will definitely have an affect on my purchasing decisions going forward. The stage display not working is a big deal, not being able to show dvd clips as in v6 is a big deal. Not being able to set up videos to automatically play one right after the other is a big deal, in reality the fact that the same video automatically loops when it is over definitely causes issues in the middle of a service. The release of this version for purchase with so much missing has created some credibility issues for me moving forward.
Oct 04 (43 days ago)
David May agent wrote
Hey Jeremy- I hear you and believe me, it frustrates us to no end that some of our valued users and what we consider MediaShout family members are feeling this. We've been very open from the beginning about what all is in Version at the moment and what isn't. And I've explained the challenges and reasoning behind the release timeframe as best I can in the earlier posts in this forum.<br /> <br /> But I do see your point and believe me, we are exercising every single ounce of resources and personnel that we can to make MediaShout 7 everything it should be. This is our ministry and not just a business. We are a small team and we care immensely about how everything in our program affects your services. Most times our small ministry based company is a great thing, but other times it means we don't have as many resources as we'd like and we have to do things differently than larger software companies.<br /> <br /> From the beginning, we sought to make this version different and better than any other in the past. So far, it's gone overwhelmingly well, and smoother than our previous releases even. At the same time, it's not been perfect, so we are NOT settling and we won't stop until it not only has the features you need, but is continually rock solid with those features.. and then even introduces new functionality to set new standards for worship software, as MediaShout has done in the past.
Oct 04 (43 days ago)
Stephen Butler wrote
SOP Instead of fixing current versions they make an incomplete &quot;upgraded&quot; one
Oct 06 (41 days ago)
JoshSutcliff wrote
This wasn't meant be a rant post. I was frustrated over issues I'd found with MS7, without having done a proper comparison between MS6 and MS7 features. Our team moved to a new system with new hardware and a new computer. I wasn't aware that the MS6 license was invalidated for new activations, once the upgrade to MS7 occurred, but David was quick to work with me on fixing that issue.<br /> <br /> I do stand by the suggestions I made initially, about the MS team needing to be more clear that MS7 isn't MS6. There are substantial differences between the two versions. They're almost completely different programs. That is what I needed to see, before I am able to checkout and buy a MS7 license. <br /> <br /> David, thank you for your quick response on getting my MS6 license work for one more activation. I'm thankful for you and the team on your dedication to this software, which is a huge benefit for our church. I know you guys are a small team, so I don't mean to belittle your work or upset your software devs. I know you have a lot of new features planned for MS7, which I'm sure will vastly improve on its current form. <br /> <br /> All I'm suggesting is that your team make these things known publicly on the website, as it lists MS7 as the flagship version for consumers to purchase. If it's not complete, I wouldn't recommend that it be advertised as a complete version, ready for purchase in the same way that MS6 is. MS6 might be on an older design, but it's fully functional, and currently provides all that a team would currently need. <br /> <br /> Thank you for your full, honest responses, David. We appreciate you and your team's work on this software. I'm excited to see what new things are brought forward with MS7.
Oct 07 (40 days ago)
David May agent wrote
Thanks for the thoughts, Josh. I appreciate you and your feedback as well. It means a great deal to us, even when it's not what we'd like to hear, as it helps us make better tools for your church and every church that can use our program.
Oct 21 (26 days ago)
George Murray wrote
I agree that I also purchased 7 far too soon. As yet I cannot do with 7 that I'm now doing with 6. I have a 7 license, but can't use it. I wish I could have both versions concurrently (not 6 plus the 7 trial which keeps expiring) to allow me to switch when I am ready. I don't dare switch to 7 with the hope that nothing goes wrong and I no longer have access to 6. My hard drive recently quit, so stuff like this happens. I'll make the change at some point, but not any time soon.<br /> <br /> On another note. Is there any way to remove the occurrences of &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; from the forum texts?
Oct 22 (25 days ago)
David May agent wrote
I'm not sure on those tags-- I haven't seen them myself. Regarding your Version 7 license, keep in mind you can still run your Version 6 as well as Version 7 side by side even after Version 7 has been activated. By normal procedure, you can only not activate Version 6 anymore on NEW computers or hard drives after Version 7 has been activated. But if you are still learning Versino 7 or it doesn't have a particular feature you want, and you have a hard drive failure and need to also get Version 6 back too, our tech support is very flexible and helpful to make that happen for you (we can manually override those things).
Oct 22 (25 days ago)
George Murray wrote
Thanks. On the other issue re: what shows up in the forum posts, can you give me an email address, and I'll post to you what it looks like. The format tags show up in the text. It's not a problem but just annoying.
Oct 23 (24 days ago)
David May agent wrote
Yes, if you send that to me at david@mediashout.com, I'll forward it to Ryan who helps administer the support system. Thanks!
Oct 25 (22 days ago)
Terry Smith wrote
Totally agree with Josh. I did not expect a loss of so much functionality. I'm under the expectation to keep creating the same level of media in my church but it's significantly more difficult now so I'm faced with the decision to go back to 6 (which crashes frequently) or go with someone else.
Oct 25 (22 days ago)
Terry Smith wrote
Sorry about my last comment. I'm just disappointed as I've been recommending MS for many years (including at my present church) and didn't expect having to deal with less functionality in an update.
Oct 29 (18 days ago)
David May agent wrote
Hey Terry,<br /> <br /> We hear you and really apologize for any trouble you're having. Even V6 should have been a very stable program, so if you NEED to use it a while longer and want to get those issues resolved, please reach out to our support on www.mediashout.com/support. It could be a 5 minute fix like video codecs needing reinstalled after a Windows update, which we see frequently. But with all those things buttoned up, V6 should be solid.<br /> <br /> With Version 7 though, one example of what we've focused on making better, is it doesn't even NEED 3rd party video codecs-- all that is built in and more resilient to updates, etc. than any of our previous versions. It is more streamlined and there are less overall features (mostly just advanced features that rarely are used in 85% of churches, but there are a couple things that are still holding out that are widely used which we're working on getting into Version 7 in new forms.)